Sunday, 24 October 2010

WOULD I HAVE WON ON THE BOARD

I played this game a few days ago and won on time.
It was a quick game 30 minutes each to a finish.
I had black and i think i played ok to a point.
But when it got down to my knight against his (i thought more active) bishop i did not think i could queen my a pawn.
But his time ran out,after the game Ronnie was certain i had a win,but i am not sure.

Could i have won on the board if we had more time?

(show chess board)(hide chess board)


My plan if the game went on was to get his c and e pawns and get a draw.
Yes i know it's scaredy cat play but i could not think of much else.

11 comments:

chesstiger said...

looks like draw to me.

Tommyg said...

I am going to go on record as saying that it is a win. But a hard win to make. I think White has no good moves right now. Moving the White king to protect White's c pawn would eventually lead to two pawns on either side for Black. Now that I have looked at it and stated my opinion, I am going to go check it!

Tommyg said...

I put the position into Shredder and played it against Shredder and it is a win for Black...not easy though. The whole strategy would be for Black to create the threat of two pawns on either side of the board. Black's g pawn would need to get active, and the a pawn is already a threat White must keep tabs on. ie:


1... a3 2. Ba2 Na4 3. c4 Nc5 4. Ke3 Nxe4 5. c5 Nxc5 6. Kd2 g5 7. Kc2 Kd4 8. Kd2 g4 9. Bf7 Ke5
10. Ke2 Ne6 11. Be8 a2 and now White can't stop both pawns...

Not easy but that is the strategy.

LinuxGuy said...

I think it's a draw.

At first I looked at moves like Kf3-e3-d2 to stop the a-pawn, but then realized that is unnecessary.

Kg4! Kxe, Bxg6+ Ke3, Bb1 Kd2, Kf4! when the White king can come over to help push the c-pawn. Incidentally, that is the computer's idea behind Ba2, to push c4, but that looks to me to be the wrong idea, kinda slow.

Only computer I checked with is the one in my head. hehe.

LinuxGuy said...

I think it's a definite draw.

Kg4 Kf6, Bg8 Kg7, Bd5 Nd1, e5 Nxc3, Kg5 and now how is Black to make progress? Sure, Black can force the bishop to sac itself to the knight on a2, but then the e-pawn pushes, deflecting the king and allowing Kxg6.

If the knight tries to pursue the e-pawn, then the king can most likely defend it, and chasing the bishop would be like a willow-the-wisp as it can go back to a2.

Again, who knows what "the computer" will say about all this.

Tommyg said...

Hey Linux Guy:

After 1. Kg4, Black doesn't have to take the e pawn. He can first play 1...Nd1 and then after White plays 2. Kg5 Nxd1 3. Kxg6 Kxe4 Black could eventually push the a pawn?

Tommyg

CHESSX said...

Thanks guys i think/thought it was a draw and i have posted what i thought the final position would be like.
You mainly confirmed what i was thinking.

But Tommyg makes good reading and i have posted his final position as well.

This game is the best result i have had against Ronnie,before this i lost 7 straight games to him.
Perhaps the corner is turned.

LinuxGuy said...

You are right, Tommy, I couldn't find the hold for Black in the line where Black is allowed to play Kxg6.

Tommyg said...

Hey Linux guy!

I think this is a good example of how computers can help.

I am not sure I would have seen all the moves but I was pretty confident that it was a win BEFORE I conferred with the silicon machines. I knew that White had problems because his e pawn was weak and he couldn't get to Black's a pawn without deserting both of his pawns.

Now this is where the computer comes in. By playing against and then even playing your choice for the draw against it I was able to learn how to make my "instincts" work. Still not sure I would see all the moves OTB but I think sometimes besides correcting us, computers can help us to trust our "intuition".

LinuxGuy said...

TommyG, right, it helps us because people are prone to make silly tries in the endgame.

My intuition tells me that Black can't let his king get "boxed-out" by White's king, but it's really hard to avoid that. If Kxg6, Black's king is boxed-out and White's king can kick out the bishop, or make it trade for knight and a-pawn wins.

OTH, if Black's king sits still, the knight can eat the e-pawn and probably get the bishop to trade itself for the a-pawn, I'm guessing.

Whereas if the king goes over toward the a-pawn, then the g-pawn promoting seems close to duck-soup because the pawn can be pushed and the White king can say right there to make it difficult for the bishop to stop the pawn. Plus, White's knight and e-pawn would still be on the board.

The point is that the White king has to do very little and can stop counterplay nearly without moving or giving much up.

LinuxGuy said...

Okay, I got the colors switched around there, it's Black that's winning, but otherwise meant what I was explaining.